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Conroy: the filter is not akin to political censorship
Apr 13 2010, 12:55The Sydney Morning Herald reports on a speech Senator Stephen Conroy gave to the Sydney Institute on Monday night:
“The internet is an incredible piece of technology and in our lifetime it’s unlikely we’ll see anything like it again,” he said.
“But for all its technical brilliance, the internet is a distribution and communications platform.
“Having no regulation to combat illegal activity actually weakens all that is good about the internet.”
…
Senator Conroy said ISP level filtering alone was not enough to help fight child pornography or keep children safe online, which was why the government supported the block of content such as child sexual abuse imagery and material advocating terrorism.
“This is a modest measure, which reflects long held community standards about the type of content that is unacceptable in a civilised society,” he said.
“Those who claim the government’s approach is akin to the sort of political censorship practiced by authoritarian regimes are simply misleading the Australian public.”
Read more here. Once again Senator Conroy misses the point. The reality is that the introduction of a filter would give the Australian Government a mechanism to determine what content adults can and cannot access, and there is no guarantee this Government, or future Governments, would not expand the scope of the filter. Furthermore, because the blacklist will be secret, it will be impossible to know what content the Government has effectively banned. Finally, some of the other countries in the world that have a similar system are Burma, China and North Korea.
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With all due respect to the Minister (and you know that I mean that in every way), it isn't just AKIN to political censorship, it actually IS political censorship.
The abortiontv.com decision came down during an active political debate in Victoria about legalization of abortion. Then the exact same images were presented on the website of Roger Grace, the anti-abortion candidate who stood for the South Australian election a few weeks ago: abortsa.com, click "Photographic evidence" in the sidebar)
How much more "political" does he want to get?
The Minister cannot possibly look at the way his own department is behaving at the moment and say, with a straight face, that his policy isn't akin to political censorship. He KNOWS this — He's answered questions in Parliament about it, for gods sake.
In a civil and confident democratic society, it isn't the Government's role to instruct the citizenry on which political debates are acceptable.
The Minister may not like the fact that the Rudd government wishes to use censorship policy to skew public debates, but he can't credibly deny that that's what'll happen.
– mark
gee Mark – what a load of crap.You could use the same logic to argue for political parties in favour of bestiality should be able to use images depicting bestiality on their website or that political parties supporting jihad in Iraq should be able to promote their cause unhindered by highlighting videos of Americans being beheaded. The fact of the matter is that those images depict dismembered foetuses andlook like they're from a horror movie that I wouldn't want my kids to see and surprise surprise they were rated R18+ meaning they're not suitable for children. Perhaps its time to stop behaving ina misleading and deceptive manner on behalf of the commercial interests of the ISP indsutry and for your industry to behave in a civil and socially responsible way – just like they do in other more advanced western democracies.
@Benn G's comment
It may indeed be true that these images were rated R18+, and hence they're not suitable for children to view. But how does that apply to a restriction designed to remove them from the eyes of adults who wish to see them? THAT is the removal of free speech.
On a side note, I don't see how on earth you managed to deduct that Mark's logic could somehow apply favourably of either of the things you deduced. If you would be so kind to point out this 'logic', as it may not have been as clear to the rest of us as you may have thought.
As for the rest of your unsubstanciated slurs against the issue, I would like to point out to anyone reading that supporting for civil liberties doesn't actually represent "behaving ina(sp) misleading and deceptive manner on behalf of the commercial interests of the ISP indsutry".
The accusation is NOT that the government WILL abuse the system.
The accusation is that the government COULD abuse the system.
Unless there is a strong benefit from having the system in place (which there has yet to be shown there is), there should be no reason for introducing such a possibility into our civil society.
Do you honestly think those images are something your kids would come across Benn?
Ive spent a lot of time on the internet, abortion pictures don't just pop-up, you would have to look to find these pictures.
The only way your kids could view this material is if they were searching for them, and if you are concerned about that happening then you always ahve the option of installing filtering software on your own computer, so that the rest of us can have an adult debate about abortion.
You hit the nail on the head there, Benny g, just not right on the head, more to the side of it making it fall over. You are exactly the same type of person as conroy, one of those people who can't monitor their own child's behaviour. If your children are looking at these images, it's your responsibility to stop them, not a government nor anyone else. R18 movies exist too, but I suppose you can't stop your kids looking at them either.. Just because you personally don't like abortions, the reality is they exist and if I need more information about what is involved, I'd rather have all the facts and horror of what happens. Ignorance in a democracy is not acceptable, otherwise uninformed people like you get to vote on important issues which is not acceptable if we are to move forward as a society. Also, planet is flat, faries exist, lolinternet is bad.
Something that seems to have been missed by many here, if we wish to go on about 'censorship' and 'protect the children' is that there are already systems parents can set in place on internet browsers to prevent children from accessing such information 'if you really wish to go down that road'. They are not difficult to set up, and it is the responsibility of the parent to know what his/her child is doing anyway, that is not the governments job.
The same this has been happening over the years with computer games, parents complaining about thier children playing a violent game when it is the responsibility of the PARENT, not the government. How did the child get the game in the first place?? parents bought it for them.
To the point about stopping child pornography, most of this traffic is P2P anyway (peer to peer if you're unsure) which is the transfer of data from one computer to another, without the need for server protocols. In effect, it would bypass any filter that was set up, rendering the filter useless.
Why has the thermometer on http://www.efa.org.au/support2010/ not increased for weeks?
As a supporter, I would be interested in seeing progress of the campaign.
Mark's argument doesn't make sense in that the abortion images weren't censored. They were rated R18+ and are still available under the current filter scheme and would be available under the Govs planned filter. So how is this political censorship? I can't think of any type of RC content likely to be sensored that is poltical other than the euthanasia stuff – but that's only because the libs changed the Crim Act 5 years ago to make it that way.
btw Mark now, you're hear – I heard on good authoirty that Internode was trialling filtering well before COnroy's filter announcement – can you confirm or deny?
@ Kingsey A
The anti-abortion content was incorrectly classified as RC by ACMA, and it was only when it went to the Classification Board, months later, that the rating was changed. Conroy's proposed system is to have ACMA add content to the blacklist and have the CB check it out afterwards, which can take months. So with the proposed system, content which should be rated R18+ is blacklisted until the mistake is fixed. Sound like an ideal solution?
Benn G: Whether or not you think the images are suitable for children, what we're actually talking about here is whether they're suitable for adults.
Conroy keeps raving on about child porn, bestiality and rape. Okay, great, hold them up to his standard: Does any of that imagery fall into those categories?
The category they _do_ fall into is political advocacy. I don't agree with it myself, but there's no denying that anti-abortion crusaders believe that one of the ways to bring people over to their side is to show graphic pictures of aborted foetuses. On advocacy websites, in street protests, and ON THE WEBSITE OF AN ACTUAL POLITICAL CANDIDATE, FERCHRISSAKES. How can you or anyone else possibly argue that it isn't part of a political discussion, and is it the Government's place to tell adults that their political expressiveness isn't allowed to include that particular type of advocacy?
Kingsley A: The abortion images were Refused Classification. SOME of them (the ones on abortiontv.com ONLY) were later revised to R18+. Both Conroy and ACMA officials have since testified in Senate Estimates that there has been other similar imagery Refused Classification, and there were certainly multiple websites showing the same general themes on the leaked ACMA blacklists from last March.
And finally: You, or one of your many sock-puppet made-up identities, are perfectly well aware that Internode was not trialling filtering, and never has been. Simon Hackett has been on record as stating that the company you guys keep bringing up, zScaler, is an Internode _customer_, nothing more, nothing less. I'm not entirely sure why this keeps coming up because it makes no difference to anything if the allegation happened to be true, but I categorically deny your insinuation, and refer you to Simon for any additional expansion if that isn't good enough for you.
– mark
Steady on there big fella. I've not brought up Internode's filtering before. I only heard a rumour on the weekend for the first time and it was actually in relation to another censorware vendor you guys were trialling. I'm a customer – that's why I'm asking.Jeesh.I;m still not sure I understand your point. If you're correct – these images are RC because of the depictions and their impact not because the classification laws say abortion as a poltical theme should banned. Obviously one can have an anti abortion politcal stance without showing depictions of aborted babies? Should a politcal party that supports incest have depictions of incest on their website?
3780234 beers on the wall.
Top marks! very enjoyable reading, thanks.
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